1 May, 2008 . Tags: class; democracy; Democracy in East Asia; democratization; east-asia; impression; Larry Diamond; lecture; Taiwan;
World > Asia > Democracy in East Asia : The Democratic Rollback?

Democracy in East Asia : The Democratic Rollback?



image The professor of my Government and Politics in South East Asia course came up to me a few weeks back and told me it was her impression that I’ve very opinionated regarding the issue of democratization in East-Asia, especially that of Taiwan’s, and asked me whether I would be willing to review and critic a recent paper published in Foreign Affairs with the title “The Democratic Rollback – The Resurgence of the Predatory State” by Larry Diamond.

First, it should be said that I usually am one of the few to speak out in class and question the theories and thoughts proposed by our professor. Some of the classes’ discussions really bother me, making me feel really uncomfortable. The class where the question of whether East-Asian societies are “suitable” for democracy sounded almost racist to me. What was disturbing was that some of the westerners in class believed that democracy in Taiwan was an oxymoron, some making the odd claim that Thailand is the only representation of something resembling democracy in East-Asia. What was really shocking was that following that some of the Taiwanese students spoke out-loud to support the notion that “Asian social traits” with tendencies towards respect for “hierarchy” and “saving face” make it impossible for Asian nations to have a democracy. Strangely enough, though I’m not Asian or Taiwanese it deeply hurt my feelings. But, they were Taiwanese, and I’m an outsider, do I have the right to correct them about what I perceive their people to be?

image Then there were those other fatalistic lectures that spoke of the current struggles of democracy world-wide, questioning whether democracy – especially in this region – would be strong enough to sustain the first sign of economic and safety problems.

With regards to this lecture I’ve already posted the East-Asia Freedom review for 2008, which served as a base for discussion regarding what’s happening with democracy in East-Asia.

Following are my lecture presentation notes :

 

I’ll summarize the main points that I think are relevant here. I understand that each of those may have a lot of points for and against, and I’ll be happy to discuss those in more detail :

  1. I believe in Taiwan’s democracy.
  2. I believe that the claim that Asian cultural values (/Arab /African) can not – in their core – coexist with democratic values of promoting human rights and liberties completely inappropriate.
  3. I do, however, believe that the essence of democracy can’t be forced upon a nation or a group of people, but should rather be fought for and that people need to find their own path towards their interpretation of how to implement the democratic values to promote their freedom.
  4. I think we’re still generally on an up-trend, especially when it comes to Asia. China, Vietnam and other once tightly-controlled countries are gradually opening up with the rise of a middle class following globalization and IT social revolutions. It’s not so much implementing full democracies, but rather having the people in those countries voice their opinions more and enjoy rights and liberties that 10-20 years ago were unheard of. Taiwan and South-Korea are good recent examples of the process.
  5. I think that in most cases, the American blunt interference in other countries’ process of finding their democratization path has boomeranged on the entire democratic world. The recent case-studies of US forcing democracy down the Palestinian and Iraqi throats are good examples of how not to promote democracy or rather – worst ways to build long lasting well-functioning non-superficial democracies. I would dare say the US has usually done more damage than good in most of what it was trying to do to promote democratic values.
  6. That’s even before going into my strong feelings regarding the double-faced policy (usually economic vs. political) most leading democratic countries have towards other countries, especially around East-Asia.

For those who wish to watch Larry Diamond talk on the subject :

 

Comments and thoughts?

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  • http://www.thenhbushman.com/ MJ Klein

    people here tell me “Chinese people can’t live with too much freedom” and sometimes i believe it when i see how things that are of limited control are often totally out of control. western cultures worship freedom but i suspect that other cultures fear it. i’m not saying i agree with this, i’m only repeating what i have been told.

  • http://www.thenhbushman.com MJ Klein

    people here tell me “Chinese people can’t live with too much freedom” and sometimes i believe it when i see how things that are of limited control are often totally out of control. western cultures worship freedom but i suspect that other cultures fear it. i’m not saying i agree with this, i’m only repeating what i have been told.

  • olia

    Dear Fili,

    Normally, I try to restrain myself from leaving comments on any kinds of blogs, just because I strongly prefer the more personal (oral) way of interacting. But this article has been bothering me for a couple of days now, so I finally decided to share my thoughts.

    First of all, as a person taking the same class and being present during the same discussions, I would like to start with some corrections.

    I cannot recall our professor stating that Asian countries were NOT suitable for democracy. All she was explaining was to get us acquainted with different kinds of theories about democracy. True, one of those is that Asian countries cannot have democracy, but I am very positive that it has at no point of time been presented other than one of the existing theories. Besides, according to the extensive notes I take during classes, the topic has been concluded with the theory saying that any nation in the world is suitable for democracy and there are no regional, racial or any other kinds of differences on that account. And this view has been emphasized and explained in detail. Our prof has never explicitly stated which point of view she has, although according to the emphasis she put on the last theory, I feel that she shares the view that any nation deserves democracy. (In fact, it would be odd the other way around, since she is a)well-educated b)Asian herself).

    I also was a bit taken aback when one(!) as far as I remember Taiwanese student started talking about the “face” issue and inapplicability of western values, namely democratic values, in Asian societies. But no one has put these words into her mouth! And you are perfectly right here. We are outsiders and we have no right to force your or our ideas onto Taiwanese people. And if they themselves speak out ideas like that… there has to be something behind it. As you yourself wrote in the article about burning ghost money, “The Taiwanese will figure out their own way.”

    I personally disagree with a lot of things being told in our Southeast Asia class. However, this undergrad class is, sadly enough, one of the best ones I’ve had in the course of our PhD program until now. And I do think that Dr. H is doing a great job of lecturing us, no matter what. I’d actually be curious about her opinion on that.

    You also wrote: “What was disturbing was that some of the westerners in class believed that democracy in Taiwan was an oxymoron, some making the odd claim that Thailand is the only representation of something resembling democracy in East-Asia”.

    The comment about Thailand was obviously the one I made, right? I honestly cannot recall myself saying that Thailand was “the only representation of something resembling democracy”! All I was trying to discuss back then was that I was witnessing strong democratic movements in Thailand, which is interesting taking into consideration that Thailand is a constitutional monarchy. And… The class is about SOUTHEAST ASIA, where Taiwan doesn’t belong. Let’s try to avoid geographical mix-up.

    I encourage any kind of criticism on whatever subject, but… let’s stick to the facts.

    As for Taiwan. I myself am in love with this island, and I with all my heart hope for democracy to flourish in the whole world, not just here.

    Unfortunately, in my every-day life here in Tainan I face too many issues proving way and again that Taiwan still has a long way to go…

    P.S.: I have a lot more to say, but I guess I should have some mercy towards the readers…

  • olia

    Dear Fili,

    Normally, I try to restrain myself from leaving comments on any kinds of blogs, just because I strongly prefer the more personal (oral) way of interacting. But this article has been bothering me for a couple of days now, so I finally decided to share my thoughts.

    First of all, as a person taking the same class and being present during the same discussions, I would like to start with some corrections.

    I cannot recall our professor stating that Asian countries were NOT suitable for democracy. All she was explaining was to get us acquainted with different kinds of theories about democracy. True, one of those is that Asian countries cannot have democracy, but I am very positive that it has at no point of time been presented other than one of the existing theories. Besides, according to the extensive notes I take during classes, the topic has been concluded with the theory saying that any nation in the world is suitable for democracy and there are no regional, racial or any other kinds of differences on that account. And this view has been emphasized and explained in detail. Our prof has never explicitly stated which point of view she has, although according to the emphasis she put on the last theory, I feel that she shares the view that any nation deserves democracy. (In fact, it would be odd the other way around, since she is a)well-educated b)Asian herself).

    I also was a bit taken aback when one(!) as far as I remember Taiwanese student started talking about the “face” issue and inapplicability of western values, namely democratic values, in Asian societies. But no one has put these words into her mouth! And you are perfectly right here. We are outsiders and we have no right to force your or our ideas onto Taiwanese people. And if they themselves speak out ideas like that… there has to be something behind it. As you yourself wrote in the article about burning ghost money, “The Taiwanese will figure out their own way.”

    I personally disagree with a lot of things being told in our Southeast Asia class. However, this undergrad class is, sadly enough, one of the best ones I’ve had in the course of our PhD program until now. And I do think that Dr. H is doing a great job of lecturing us, no matter what. I’d actually be curious about her opinion on that.

    You also wrote: “What was disturbing was that some of the westerners in class believed that democracy in Taiwan was an oxymoron, some making the odd claim that Thailand is the only representation of something resembling democracy in East-Asia”.

    The comment about Thailand was obviously the one I made, right? I honestly cannot recall myself saying that Thailand was “the only representation of something resembling democracy”! All I was trying to discuss back then was that I was witnessing strong democratic movements in Thailand, which is interesting taking into consideration that Thailand is a constitutional monarchy. And… The class is about SOUTHEAST ASIA, where Taiwan doesn’t belong. Let’s try to avoid geographical mix-up.

    I encourage any kind of criticism on whatever subject, but… let’s stick to the facts.

    As for Taiwan. I myself am in love with this island, and I with all my heart hope for democracy to flourish in the whole world, not just here.

    Unfortunately, in my every-day life here in Tainan I face too many issues proving way and again that Taiwan still has a long way to go…

    P.S.: I have a lot more to say, but I guess I should have some mercy towards the readers…

  • http://www.filination.com/blog fiLi

    Olia – thanks for taking the time to reply. It’s important that those interested in this topic will have more than my account of that class and this issue.

    Since you replied – Without going into all the details you mentioned I would like to say that we’ve probably been in two different classes, since I clearly remember things very different than what you recall, including and especially the remarks made by the professor and yourself.
    Since then, the professor had more on the subject in the following classes with statements I was constantly feeling uncomfortable with. The reason I remember those, aside from the fact it bothered me alot, is because of the discussions I had after class with some of the Taiwanese students that are taking our class to try and make sense of all of this. It does turn out I’m more sensitive to this than the Taiwanese I talked to.

    This is an extremely sensitive subject, especially when considering the multi-national construct of our class. I do understand and accept the fact that when discussing such issues, I’m bound to hear things from others that I’m uncomfortable with. It might be a natural part of my learning experience.

  • http://www.filination.com/blog fiLi

    Olia – thanks for taking the time to reply. It’s important that those interested in this topic will have more than my account of that class and this issue.

    Since you replied – Without going into all the details you mentioned I would like to say that we’ve probably been in two different classes, since I clearly remember things very different than what you recall, including and especially the remarks made by the professor and yourself.
    Since then, the professor had more on the subject in the following classes with statements I was constantly feeling uncomfortable with. The reason I remember those, aside from the fact it bothered me alot, is because of the discussions I had after class with some of the Taiwanese students that are taking our class to try and make sense of all of this. It does turn out I’m more sensitive to this than the Taiwanese I talked to.

    This is an extremely sensitive subject, especially when considering the multi-national construct of our class. I do understand and accept the fact that when discussing such issues, I’m bound to hear things from others that I’m uncomfortable with. It might be a natural part of my learning experience.

  • http://www.filination.com/blog fiLi

    Olia – thanks for taking the time to reply. It’s important that those interested in this topic will have more than my account of that class and this issue.

    Since you replied – Without going into all the details you mentioned I would like to say that we’ve probably been in two different classes, since I clearly remember things very different than what you recall, including and especially the remarks made by the professor and yourself.
    Since then, the professor had more on the subject in the following classes with statements I was constantly feeling uncomfortable with. The reason I remember those, aside from the fact it bothered me alot, is because of the discussions I had after class with some of the Taiwanese students that are taking our class to try and make sense of all of this. It does turn out I’m more sensitive to this than the Taiwanese I talked to.

    This is an extremely sensitive subject, especially when considering the multi-national construct of our class. I do understand and accept the fact that when discussing such issues, I’m bound to hear things from others that I’m uncomfortable with. It might be a natural part of my learning experience.

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  • http://arbiterofwaste.wordpress.com/ nostalgiphile

    Highly cool, and I’ve been meaning to say how glad I am that students like yourself still come to Taiwan to study. Just being there and discussing shit like this is incredibly important. Hang in there.

  • http://arbiterofwaste.wordpress.com nostalgiphile

    Highly cool, and I’ve been meaning to say how glad I am that students like yourself still come to Taiwan to study. Just being there and discussing shit like this is incredibly important. Hang in there.

  • http://www.filination.com/blog fiLi

    Nostalgiphile – Thanks, that’s nice to hear.

  • http://www.filination.com/blog fiLi

    Nostalgiphile – Thanks, that’s nice to hear.

  • http://www.theuniuni.com/ Payton_vege

    Amazing write-up! This could aid plenty of people find out more about this particular issue. Are you keen to integrate video clips coupled with these? It would absolutely help out. Your conclusion was spot on and thanks to you; I probably won’t have to describe everything to my pals. I can simply direct them here!