Friday, October 12th, 2007...8:08 pm
Foreigners and Locals : Do Taiwanese like foreigners in Taiwan?
The other day I was reading a fascinating post by the wonderful Wangjianshuo about an encounter between foreigners and locals in China. Things heated up pretty quickly, and local aggression against foreigners soon surfaced. Here’s a little from what was said there :
The Foreigner
The foreigner was very upset, and used the top of his voice to shout to the safeguard. Obviously he didn’t know Chinese and this is something he said:
"Keep your F*** hands out of my driver." "You hit my car. I will call police. You need to go to jail!" "You are over. Bye bye" "I took your photo. You cannot run away. You are done!". Something like that, and I could not hear it clearly.
The Crowd
Very quickly, the crowd gathered and this was their comments:
"Get out of China, foreigners!" "This is not 1930s. You go away." To the driver: "Why you a Chinese work for Americans like a dog? You betrayed your country". To the driver: "There are enough people like you before liberation. You are not a Chinese." "Now China cannot beat American. That is the reason they dare to beat our people here."
What’s even more interesting, is what the blogger wrote about it :
I’d like to make it fair for everyone. For people who are foreigners and reading this blog, I want to explain the reason why there are such a strong power hidden there. The current education about history is, foreigners invaded China and pull the country into half a century of poverty and humility disaster. People feel very proud of the current strong country that history may not repeat itself.
If you ask me, as an independent thinking (I hope so), I think the current nationalism education is dangerous. If someone can fight for something just because of hate of another country, or they were told this is a conflict between his/her country and another country, that can be very dangerous. That is the case in Japan and Germany in WWII.
Now, things are very different in Taiwan, I would think. On the surface, the first impression is that there is something about the local attitude towards westerns that is very respectful, friendly, warm and welcoming. It is the Taiwanese stereotype and it is accepted. In one of our classes one of the professors did a curious survey in class and asked "what do you think about Taiwanese friendliness? how many of you think Taiwanese are friendly to them?". Looking at the class it was obvious that the students who found the Taiwanese to be friendly were the western looking bunch while so of the Asian nationalities were indicating some resentment towards how some Taiwanese accept them. The professor concluded - "it is my own impression that Taiwanese are polite and friendly-looking towards westerns only", which I found to be a somewhat shocking admission. I could see some similarities to Israel and so I would emphasis that it’s wrong to stereotype the Taiwanese about their stereotypical attitudes towards nationalities.
But, there’s something more than that. Among foreigners who’ve been here for a while there is some sort of agreement that this Taiwanese friendliness and politeness is not because of genuine admiration for all that’s "white", but rather some sort of a tool to somehow confine the foreigners’ response, something like a "golden trap". First time I heard this, I thought it was hilarious, but this idea keeps coming up and not always as a joke. I sometimes do feel that some of the older generations have mixed feelings towards everything that’s western, especially when it comes to academics. On the one hand it is accepted that authority, as far as academic publishing, financial resources and political power is concerned, lies in the west, however - there is more respect to how things are done locally, sometime rejecting western attitudes and ways of thinking as irrelevant. Which might result in a strange combination of trying to pull off something that goes by western standards with a Taiwanese way-of-thinking, and results are interesting.
I don’t think anything like what was described here from China might happen in Taiwan, but I’ve already felt some of the resentment that some of the Taiwanese feel towards the foreigners. The most obvious and disturbing issue has to do with money, and the fact that I - and the other foreigners here - get a scholarship to study here while Taiwanese have to pay what they consider to be "alot". In the first two weeks, there was not a class or event that we had that we were not reminded of how fortunate we are to be part of the program and that we should know that some of the Taiwanese complain about this often. It was also mentioned more than once, that last year there was a physical fight between foreigners and locals in the dorms over this issue. In one of classes the lecturer was joking around with this issue, making me feel a little bit uncomfortable, and then - he turned to the Taiwanese students and asked them if any of them would like to complain about this. Everyone laughed and thought it was really funny, but suddenly, one of the Taiwanese said "Yes, I have a lot to complain", took the microphone from the professor and started a 10 minutes monologue about his feelings towards foreigners in the program. I was honestly quite confused. He said his friends care about the money issue, but he doesn’t, what he does care about is that we don’t make an effort to blend in, expecting that the Taiwanese will make all the effort for us. "Why", he wondered out loud, "do you always say TingBuDong TingBuDong and not try to learn to speak our language?". The professor, maybe realizing the mistake he did, was watching from aside and waiting for this to finish. I knew this guy, he was a friendly and outgoing Taiwanese guy, but hearing him talk I realized that there is some emotions running in the background, and this was coming from a Taiwanese making an effort to go to an international student program.
What’s the point, then? I’m not sure. I think this issue is fascinating, but all I have are my small observations about things. One of the things that I enjoy about Taiwan the most are the people that I meet here and I really think that the Taiwanese people have amazing potential. As I told one of my classmates the other day - I have a feeling that one day the Taiwanese youth is going to explode with all that potential. It happened in Israel with the IT boom, as young talented IT and business folks made millions, shifting the focus from a holocaust-background surrounded-by-enemies traditional frame of thinking to a youthful sexy energetic and lively attitude. Somehow, the contradictions within the Taiwanese society give the feeling that the same can and might happen in Taiwan and China.
Do Taiwanese like foreigners in Taiwan? I think so, but I can’t be sure. Either way, this foreigner adores the Taiwanese in Taiwan 
tags: Taiwan
“Why”, he wondered out loud, “do you always say TingBuDong TingBuDong and not try to learn to speak our language?”
well, i have been here for over three years, but i do not speak Mandarin at all. and why is that?
my 1st univesity required us to learn ENGLISH for two semesters. when asking for Chinese, we were first refused but then a year later were offered a class in Taipei (around 60 km from our location) with an overlapping agenda. there was no way we could take it.
now in Kaohsiung, we were promised to provide Mandarin classes, but a month has passed and no nothing. just yesterday we got an offer with a schedule overlapping 100% our coursework. there is no way we can take it.
any other options? Ming Chuan’s tuition was so high (NTD 94 K in a year) we could not afford any private language lessons. and we always lived together with foreigners.
sorry, folks. timbutong.
Oh, that’s actually very surprising. From the little I know, the Taiwanese government tries to encourage foreigners to study Chinese. Most of the Taiwan scholarship offer 1 year of Mandarin studies before the degree studies, which I chose not to take. That’s really too bad
In my own personal opinion, as someone who’s been studying for a while but still hasn’t made it to a good-enough level, I see learning Chinese as something essential to try and feel less isolated. It might cost me 400-500US$ a semester, it might be frustrating and a lot of work, but it gives me a sense of purpose here.
With that said, having a local criticize me for not talking Chinese with him is awkward. I have a feeling it hides level of much greater frustration over something I don’t understand than really caring whether I speak Mandarin or not. I would never imagine an Israeli asking foreigners, whether they’ve been staying in Israel for a day or 10 years, why they don’t speak Hebrew. If anything, I would be surprised and extremely respectful should they make any effort to actually learn Hebrew
“Most of the Taiwan scholarship offer 1 year of Mandarin studies before the degree studies, which I chose not to take.”
the same with me, as one year of LEP (Language Enhancement Program) counts towards the scholarship nomination (and i was hoping to get a PhD-funding for 3 years instead 2).
well, but perhaps this language comprehension is an obsession of small nations like we are? say, Chinese generally don’t speak English (as well as Italians, French, Russians). we have Russians living in Estonia over 40 years and still monolingual.
ehee, i was a little too optimistic. i’ve been here not over 3 but 2 years. but whatever, no big difference.
nice post. I think your take on this is right… in that it is tough to know the real feelings about Taiwanese about foreigners. I hate generalizations, but I guess to have an opinion about this issue means that I’ll have to generalize. In general, Taiwanese seem to like foreigners, but I usually feel like their affinity for foreigners is based on one of the following reasons: For Americans in particular, the USA has been Taiwan’s biggest backer v. China forever and Taiwanese do appreciate that. For Taiwanese who have studied/lived abroad, they appreciate the difficulty of leaving family and familiarity. For English ability. In many churches, people are thankful that foreign missionaries have come to Taiwan to share. I don’t think that their seeming affinity for foreigners is fake, but I think there are some other motivations listed above.
I am a fan of Nebraska Cornhusker football (a college team in the USA). Nebraska fans are widely known to be “The Greatest Fans in College Football”. It is a well deserved title. However, I now wonder if the actions of many of the fans are dictated more by trying to keep that honorable title rather than by acting naturally and having those actions result in an honorable title/label.
Application to Taiwan? Taiwanese (and all asians in general) are “famous” for their hospitality. I often feel like the warm welcome I receive here is based more on Taiwanese being careful not to ruin that image rather than genuine desire to be friendly with me and get to know me. So… the honorable title/perception is guiding action rather than altruistic action leading to a perception.
I definitely don’t feel much hostility here, though. Outside of some occasions when I feel people are talking about me, the only time I could really mention was a time when my wife was accosted by some Taiwanese when going to visit the doctor several years ago. It was at the Adventist hospital in Taipei and at the time you could pay a little extra and get an appointment at a specific time instead of having a number and just having to wait for your number. My wife used that option (to get a specific time) and when she showed up and was allowed in to see the doctor in front of several people who had been waiting, she was verbally abused (as were the nurses) for getting special foreigner treatment. The nurses did explain that my wife had paid extra for that service, but that led to even more verbal abuse about how rich foreigners were. It was just an isolated incident and we don’t think it represents Taiwanese people, but it was interesting to see some of the feelings that might lurk below the hospitable and friendly image.
I’m a Englishman (with a Taiwanese wife and mixed race child), living in Taiwan for almost three years now. At first I was very impressed by the friendliness and politess of many of the locals towards me. But with time I began to realise that this is mostly superficial, and yes like the author says, a way to control the interaction with the foreigner.
The Taiwanese appear to be nervous of having any meaningful interaction with strangers, and unwilling to give anything away about their own lives to strangers. So while on the surface foreigners (from what I have read, it seems that this applies to “Westerners” only) is very polite, helpful and often appears preferential to the way the locals are treated, it’s really just a way to keep the foreigner at a distance.
On one hand life is made very easy for us here, and I’ve certainly never experienced anything that I could describe as racism or discrimination, on the other hand it can be very frustrating because I realise that whatever I say or do, I will not really be listened to to and the response towards me will be the same. The Taiwanese really are very skilful at controlling the foreigner’s response in this kind of situation !
But I can’t complain too much, at least I have never been made to feel unwelcome in Taiwan. Which is more than I can say for how some comments made by my Taiwanese friends about treatment by local on their visits to European countries.
One other thing, there is a very big difference between the attitude towards people in Taipei city and Taipei county/ further out of town. Walking in the Xinyi district, with my wife and mixed race child, I feel quite comfortable. There are quite a few foreigners around here and the majority of people would not stare.
But for instance cycling along the Danshui river path, the majority of people who I pass will stare (in a rather neutral way, but it still makes me feel uncomfortable), particularly men and older people in general. And double the stares and attention (overwhelmingly positive, I must say) received because I have a mixed race child. If you just want to relax, not have unnecesary attention and be treated how you deserve to be treated, and appreciated for the person you are, then Taiwan can drive your crazy.
After a while, you realise that the best option is not to think too much about the above, accept the situation, and enjoy the many positives about life in Taiwan.
This situation will not change until Taiwan starts to attract foreigners in much greater numbers so we become less of a spectacle and more of a normal part of life in Taiwan. Having said that, is is difficult to imagine Taiwan ever being multicultural, in the way the we know it in the UK/ USA/ Australia etc …. It is quite common for Western men to marry Taiwanese women, but while they will probably be accepted by the woman’s family their situation in society is quite ambiguous. Actually, society or a sense of community here doesn’t really exist, the family is the only thing that matters here.
I’m sure it could get old, but I’d like to meet some Taiwanese who aren’t easily satisfied about foreigner’s Chinese skills. I enjoyed the Dongbei bluntness I was subjected to last time I stayed with a friend in mainland China.
Mark - for that, I think you have to start talking to the older folks. The guys practicing Taichi in the parks around 4-5am are not easily impressed
(BTW - you should contact Akismet and ask that they remove you from their spam list. They’ll fix that immediately.)
One day during our language class at Shida we were discussing how Taiwanese treat us. The two westerners in the class (myself and a gentleman in his mid-40s) had mostly positive things to say, while our non-western classmates complained that Taiwanese are often impatient with them when they try to speak Chinese. It is very true in Taipei, a person I am talking to in Chinese here will have a look of amazement in their face as I struggle through whatever I have to say and usually compliment my Chinese afterwards, whereas my Indonesian classmates complained that on several occasions if they were struggling to say something correctly they were often cutoff by the listener who would tell them that he or she didn’t understand.
I think it goes much further than that, especially when it comes to Indonesians, Vietnamese, Thai and other less developed countries. I’ve seen some of those interactions between Taiwanese and my SE-Asian friends, and sometimes I felt that if I had someone respond to me that way I would feel offended and upset, but they took it as nothing out of the ordinary. :S
Hello everybody! I stumbled upon this blog while I was web surfing on Google. I’ve visited some of the other blogs, and I would like to say I’ve enjoyed the “intelligent” discussions I’ve seen regarding Taiwanese issues. It’s a breath of fresh air in comparison to the usual Taiwanese forums I visit. I’m a native Taiwanese raised in the southern city of Kaohsiung and educated in the American system.
Here’s my perspective of the issue. I think. . .that a majority of the society tend to be pretentious, especially up north. For example, they prefer to see themselves higher up in the social ladder as oppose to their southern counterparts. It should be needless to mention how some view the Taiwanese aboriginals then.
People like to think they fare off better than others. I think this is true in all societies, but in Asian countries, it is magnified. I don’t know if any of you have observed on Taiwanese media the following: encouragement of plastic surgery, slim figures as the only accepted body shape in society (flood of diet pill commercials as opposed to training/exercise informecials in the US), super light skin tone as a symbol of elegance, brand names (Gucci, Prada, so on), and the rest. I live in the states and I have not seen these matters so over-emphasized. It’s like the media is persuading the viewers that it’s okay to be shallow.
It gets me when someone or some group tend to degrade certain social groups to feel distinguished. For example, as mentioned earlier, I don’t see why northern Taiwanese always stress and remark on how uneducated that southern Taiwanese tend to be. Sure, a majority of the southern population are farmers. Sure, Tainan and Kaohsiung may not be as “international” as Taipei. Does it mean that they are brain dead and can’t make wise decisions?
I believe that education broadens an individual’s perspective of things. However, I also believe intelligence “must” go hand in hand with adequate wisdom for one to apply them properly. The actions and behaviors I have observed of these so-called educated people only showcase how uneducated and prejudice they are.
My apologies for digressing so far. Going back to your question: “Do Taiwanese like foreigners in Taiwan?” My answer is “yes, but selective.” A perfect example would be Asian attitude towards black people in the past. If it weren’t for the NBA, music, and the movie industry, I believe the majority of Asia would still hold some bias towards them today.
As a response to Todd and fiLi: Why do you think they treat your SE-Asian friends so differently? I don’t think it’s a matter of racism. My opinion would be it’s the working of their superior complex. Westerners have advance technology, wonderful movies and music, and are excellent in sports. What about our SE-Asian neighbors? This is what I think is buried deep in their head. Indonesians do our housekeeping, Vietnamese are replacements when we can’t seek Taiwanese brides, and Thai(s) work our construction sites. This is sad seeing how ignorant the society could be in certain aspect, yet so acceptive in others. But I wouldn’t blame the people. It’s the media and societie’s fault for not properly educating them on these matters. I bet if your SE-Asian friends were gorgeous looking women, the scenario would be totally different.
Mike - thanks for sharing your thoughts on that. What you describe makes sense and actually isn’t that far off what I would explain about the Israeli mentality towards this issue.
But, there is still something a more extreme in Taiwan that especially appreciates the west. Taiwanese are no where near familiar with the American pop-culture and entertainment business as most Israelis are, but there is still the initial assumption that what ever comes from the US/Canada is of higher-standard. It’s interesting to note that - culturally, most Israelis and Europeans would highly disagree with that opinion.
The most personal example I can tell is that most Taiwanese who see me and talk to me assume that I’m American or Canadian, and so the initial welcome I get is very warm and curious. Sometimes, quite often, the attitude changes when I tell them I’m actually not American, but that I come from Israel.
An average Taiwanese aspiration usually has to do with either studying, working, or living in the states, with very few exceptions targeting Japan, some settling for the UK or Aussie. The most common question a western student, usually an American/Canadian, is asked by the local students is - “WHY (in God’s name), would you (ever) want to (leave your amazing country and come) study here in Taiwan?”.
I think it depends…people are so different no matter where are they from? as a foreigners to any country, we might have good or bad experiences and it could not say “all”, as me a Taiwanese I like foreigners, and also I like to talk with people, all related about the personality, and communication is very important.
When we really treat people in the right way, we don’t care what language we use, or which countries that they are from, we just see a human’s needs and we would like to do something for that. That what I think, peace,love…to a person who are with me.