26 Jan, 2007 in China, Taiwan by Fili An Tags: academia_sinica; asia_research_centre; China; chinese_debate; culture_research; education_in_taiwan; global_perspectives; interchange_projects; london; minister_of_education; professor_cheng; professor_stephan; stephan_feuchtwang; taipei; Taiwan; taiwanese_identity; taiwanese_students; taiwan_culture;

The Taiwan-China issue in London

A few weeks back I heard about a small conference held in London hosting Mr. Tu Cheng-sheng who’s the Minister of Education for Taiwan (杜正勝) with a speech titled "Education Reform in Taiwan: local and global perspectives". It was interesting to listen to what happened since the interactions between the Chinese and Taiwanese students who attended the event were quite emotional regarding the question of Taiwanese identity and independence. Previously, I got a little taste of the Chinese-Taiwanese relations myself while I was visiting London, and have always wondered what it would be like to see a Taiwanese and a Chinese debate on political issues directly, especially when abroad and with what I consider to be a politics-free zone like a university in London.

Date: Wednesday 10 January 2007;Time: 6-7.30pm;Venue: Old Theatre, LSE Old Building
Speaker: Professor Cheng-Sheng Tu
Chair: Professor Stephan Feuchtwang

Cheng-Sheng Tu is currently the Minister of Education in Taiwan and also a professor of History at the Academia Sinica, Taipei. He is also the former Director of the National Palace Museum in Taipei.

Minister Tu will outline his proposed educational reforms for Taiwan. He highlights a local focus, encouraging students to study the history, geography, and culture of the island of Taiwan. He also promotes an interaction between local and global perspectives in education, cultivating a variety of scholarship interchange projects. This lecture is organised by the Taiwan Culture Research Programme at the Asia Research Centre in LSE.

I was reminded of this event again today while discussing the China-Taiwan relations and how I write about those in this blog. The Minister’s speech is now available online in English, which is an opportunity to understand more about the issue and see a fascinating description of the Taiwanese perspective. Reading through it, I could see how some Chinese would be sensitive towards its main message. Thanks to the wonderful "Taiwan Matters!" group-blog I was able to hear more about what was actually happening over there :

Last Friday’s edition of the FTV program 頭家來開講 ("Boss Talk") showed some excerpts from Tu’s speech on "Education Reform in Taiwan: local and global perspectives" at his alma mater.

During the event, some students from China disrupted the speech by shouting slogans and holding up ironic signs saying "No cultural brainwashing" and "Taiwan is a part of China." (Note: Taiwan has never been controlled by the PRC [AKA China] — which is a mere part of "mainland Asia" — and the only reason anybody thinks so is because it has been repeated a million or more times.)

Because he doesn’t have the same restrictions required of the president when on diplomatic missions, Tu was able to say loudly and proudly, "I am Taiwanese!" The audience cheered loudly for this seemingly simple statement of truth. They also shouted down the real "cultural brainwashers" in the audience who were pushing propaganda while merely pretending to ask questions.

Luckily enough, they also posted a very pro-Green/DPP video online (those following this blog might even recognize a familiar face on 1:37) :

 

 

The Chinese-Taiwanese interaction here is remarkable, in so many respects. The Chinese questions/statements, the Minister’s reply and the participation of the crowd are all another demonstration for the depth of emotions and the gap in the perception of reality.

The comparisons with the Israeli-Palestinian relations are apparent. Some Taiwanese that I met compared Taiwan-China to Israel-Arabworld and some compared Taiwan-China to Palestine-Israel, which is interesting because I do feel that I can understand and relate to both sides, even if I don’t agree with some of the points made by them.

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It will look like this: The Taiwan-China issue in London

  • Carrie
    Oh is that true? But the only person who ever used those dirty words is you. Looks like someone who can't win the debate got totally abnoxious huh. Well.. it's not difficult to tell people in PRC is sick in mind now. Haha~
    And your claims were built up by loads of lies which you should blame yourself for the lack of independant thinking. You China is like Aristotle who everybody and even the church believed was right. But what? Someone unknown,Galileo, overthrew his bloody wrong theory. You think you're the saint, you're the power of the world in Asia, so you're right? You people simply take the lie as the absolute truth, self-righteously undeniable and undoubtful. I just really think there's a need to TEACH you what the so-called logical thinking is based on the origin of the thing itself not the absofuckinglutely wrong ideas from some eggheads. Teaching? ya i doubt if it really exists in China. HAHA~ teaching you how to win with lies? lol
  • To all the aliens clamoring for Taiwan's independence:

    Your clamor is a load of rubbish, shit, turd, dung.

    Your corporal support of Taiwan's independence will mean the death of you.

    China is the world's fourth largest economy and the third larget trader (excluding Hong Kong and Macau, and in this case excluding Taiwan). We can drop the Bomb on your heads, launch the airship (Shenzhou), send satellites into orbit or take them down.

    You can thank God China is not democratic now. If it was, Chen Shuibian and Lee Tung-hun would have long been hanged, just like Saddam was.
  • Dear Chris,

    I repeat yet again:

    1. No country called “Taiwan” exists in the world. Taiwan is a geographical term, neither a country nor a nation.

    2. “National self-determination” does not apply to Taiwan simply because Taiwan is not a nation, particularly when such determination means independence.

    3. Constitutions of the PRC and ROC state that Taiwan is part of China.

    4. Governments of all the UN member states recognize, take note of or acknowledge (China’s assertion) that Taiwan is part of China, except for 24 tiny republics.

    5. No-democracy of the Mainland neither changes the fact Taiwan is Chinese and nor automatically justifies the island’s independence. These are two things. Also, democracy exists only on paper or in talks, not in practice. Everywhere in the world, the rich and the powerful rule.
  • Chris
    The history goes that Taiwan has never been part of the Peoples Republic of China even for one day. For over half a century, Taiwan has been independant. Taiwan has it's own government, army, flag, and ties with other countries. (small one's of course). Taiwan has it's own ruling authority, and China has it's own ruling authority. Neither one of them had control over the other for over half a century. I see no reason at all why that should ever change. China kills and tortures innocent people. In Taiwan, they don't do that anymore. And democracy does justify Taiwan independance. Wanna know why? Because in a democratic country, you're allowed to analyse political situations and make decisions on what you want to believe about your government or the world. China doesn't give people that freedom to do that, and Taiwan's people have the ability to see China for what it is. Mao Zedong killed millions of Chinese from 1949 to 1970. 1970 till now, millions of more Chinese get killed just for using freedom of thought. I don't blame Taiwan one bit for wanting to be independant. I don't want to be part of a country that persecutes political dissidents, tortures innocent people, and is nothing more than an abusive parent.
  • I'm now repeating what I've said.

    1. No country called "Taiwan" exists in the world. Taiwan is a geographical term, neither a country nor a nation.

    2. "National self-determination" does not apply to Taiwan simply because Taiwan is not a nation, particularly when such determination means independence.

    3. Constitutions of the PRC and ROC state that Taiwan is part of China.

    4. Governments of all the UN member states recognize, take note of or acknowledge (China's assertion) that Taiwan is part of China, except for 24 tiny republics.

    5. No-democracy of the Mainland neither changes the fact Taiwan is Chinese and nor automatically justifies the island's independence. These are two things. Also, democracy exists only on paper or in talks, not in practice. Everywhere in the world, the rich and the powerful rule.
  • Alias1983
    One country two systems? Hey. How about China belongs to Japan. One country two systems. China gets it's system ony for 50 years. That's how it should be. After that, more Nanjing massacres happen. Just like when Taiwan's 50 years is over, human rights abuses run wild in Taiwan. removing peoples organs. Torturing people to force them to confess to crimes they never comitted. Gee it's gonna be great when you take over Taiwan. A peace loving country which has a great record of human rights. No Taiwanese who has a head on their shoulders would wanna unify with such an un just system after knowing what happened at Tiananmen square. Just like the Chinese would never wanna be taken over by Japan knowing what Japan did at Nanjing city. One country two systems? Hey. How about if Germany became Nazi Germany again and claimed Israel. Oh. But it will be one country and two systems. Yes I'm sure Israel would love that. Now you know how the Taiwanese feel? I hope that if you try to take over their country, I hope that the Taiwan Nationalist army (who is willing to fight for their democracy and freedom) can kill as many of the Chinese military possible. Make them not only pay for invading Taiwan, a sovereign country that runs itself, not part of PRC, but also make the Chinese military (as many of them possible) pay dearly for the deaths of those who died at Tiananmen Square on June 4 1989.
  • 3.

    After the U.S.-led forces were driven back south on the Korean peninsular and had to sign a ceasefire agreement with China, I believe some people must be quite surprised that after so many humiliating military defeats suffered by China the Communists actually forced U.S. and its small brothers to sit for some kind of ceasefire agreement with a country they had invaded, robbed, raped, humiliated and exploited. The lesson for Americans and their fellow invaders has been clear: DO NOT TAKE ON CHINA AGAIN. Of course, China also learned that U.S. is not a country to be trifled with. This is a two-street scenario. But, if either side wants to live through it all over again, U.S. and China will be in for another ceasefire agreement in the days of nuclear winter, if the two countries are still there in the new winter. Think about it.

    4.

    To say Hong Kong is a democracy before the handover in 1997 is a load of rubbish. Before that, HK was a COLONY of the British! HK's governors used to be finger-picked by its colonizers in the U.K. China now just retained what the Britons left and want to decide the Democratic progress in HK its own pace. Everything has been made clear in HK's Basic Law. Don't tell you have not read it before venturing your opinions that criticize China's role in HK's democratic reforms.
  • Thank you for writing such a comprehensive response to the post. I think it's the first time I really got to read a passionate comment/post about this issue from a Chinese. I understand this is a very sensitive issue, and I could see the unbelievable gaps in perspective between the people involved in this issue.
  • Thank YOU for your inspiring post.

    I just happened to know that some efforts should be done to educate the world about Taiwan, the largest Chinese island.

    I can guess that you know many young Taiwanese who don't identify too much with China.

    As far as I'm concerned, I don't worry too much about these people with the ideas. "Young Taiwanse" were even educated and brainwashed into believing they were Japanese subjects in the days of Japanese Occupation of Taiwan (1895-1945). Things can be done to make them believe they are Chinese again.

    Taiwan is going through a frenzy that reminds me of the Cultural Revolution in the mainland.No one knows where this frenzy will lead the island. Let wait and see.
  • 0.
    Non-Chinese readers, please note: Your fingers in China's Taiwan pie are not welcome. Your corporal support of Taiwan's Independence from China will mean the death of you, because China will try to kill any foreigners who meet us on the battleground of Taiwan's Independence which China violently opposes to. PERIOD
    1.
    The People's Republic of China's (PRC) Constitution and its Anti-Secession Law say yes. And the Constitution of the Republic of China (ROC), the residual state system having survived a four-year civil war (1945-49) with Communists still runs the island, also says yes. The very reason for the existence of the surviving ROC on the island is that the PRC's Central Government in Beijing has elected NOT to dismantle it after it assumed the role of ruling the whole of China from ROC in 1949. In the best interests of the Chinese nation, the Central Government wants a peaceful, "One Country, Two Systems" reunification with Taiwan.
    To continue with the above discussion entailing complicated, contentious historical and legal points would require extensive research, which is not what I want to deal with in this posting. For example, a Western scholar even argues that China is a culture that pretends to a country. It might take months of research and study of historical, legal and social books for an amateur like me to challenge his conviction. My first-minute response to his point is that he says only half the thing. As I see it, China is a country that is united by one culture. Another startling assertion is that, according to some arrangement, Taiwan is a territory of the United States that puts the island in the hands of the occupying ROC after WWII ended with Japan surrendering the island to the Allied Forces in 1945. People of this opinion go on to say that the reason why neither PRC nor ROC owns Taiwan is that the arrangement did not specify to whom the island was surrendered. And that's why the U.S. has a relations act with the island and justifiably sells weapons to Taiwan, one of its territories, according to that frame of thinking. This is a word game: By one treaty, China lost Taiwan to Japan; and by another, Japan lost Taiwan to an unidentified entity, but not China. Who is it to be, then, if not China? China lost a piece of its soil to an enemy in a failed war and couldn't take it back even when the enemy was defeated?
    Beijing has provided a good and operational framework into which Taiwan can again live under one flag with the rest of China: "One Country, Two Systems". To use force to reunify the nation is the worst choice that China has desperately tried to avoid. China has had enough of such internecine and wars with foreign countries in its history. Too much of them! But, this does not mean China will do nothing violent if its patience and endurance are tested to the extremes and it fears it would lose Taiwan again.

    In my opinion, things have not changed too much since British-French forces burned down the Summer Place in Beijing in 1860 and European, American and Asian democracies invaded China and occupied Beijing in 1900. The rule of the game is still "might is right". Today's China has means, ways, resources, capabilities, will and domestic popular support (if reasonable) to have it all its own way, at least of keeping Taiwan part of its territory, which China is justified to do according to China's Constitution and the Anti-Secession Law.
  • This Teng made at least two mistakes. First, his "country's" Constitution says its state is called the Republic of China. The Republic of Taiwan is yet to be born and will never be born! Second, so far, Taiwan has been a geographical term and no country in the world has any diplomatic with his "Taiwanese Republic". A Taiwan State only in talks? He is an idiot or pretends to be one when he proclaims the Republic of Taiwan? His corrupt boss Chen Shuibian is called the President of the Republic of China, not Taiwan!

    A small point to ponder over: In a democracy, its constitution is something to be played with? Teng called his "country" Taiwan, yet its constitution calls it ROC.

    Don't tell me the island is a democracy. His shameless "President" Chen refused to be booted from his office even though nearly half of the people who voted him into office wanted to fire him. He is truly proud of his Taiwan-make democracy? Come on! Does he believe what he says? His boss Chen Shuibian is rubbish, never keeps promises, is corrupt and has the nerve to stay in office! This is called "democratic"?

    The reason for the survival of his state on the island after 1949 is that the Central Government in Beijing has elected NOT to unify it, by force if force.

    Also, democracy should not be a reason for Taiwan Independence. Democracy and independence are two things. Mainland China's non-democracy does not justify Taiwan's Independence.

    Moreover, I believe democracy is only of talks, not in practice. I'd prefer to say that democracy and non-democracy are two just two names used to identify a better and a less better form of government. All the fundemental rights belong to the rich and the powerful. In the West, the rich rules, and in China, the CPC rules. No fundemental difference between the two.

    Last, but not least,all I have said above is rubbish. The supporting argument for the rubbish is simple: MIGHT IS RIGHT. China has that MIGHT to keep Taiwan within its territory.

    To pro-Independence people in Taiwan: Your status quo is mercifully granted by the Central Government in Beijing. It is like air. If Beijing chooses to cut it, you will feel what China has justifiably claims over the island where you live. China will not hesitate to kill you if you put up corporal resistence against China's advancing armies.

    Saber-rattling? Of course, it is. That is the rule of the world. U.S. can invade Iraq and kill its people on dreamed-of mass-construction weapon grounds. What can and who will stop it? No one! Even what U.S. commits is crime!

    To U.S., Japan, and small brothers: CHINA IS JUSTIFIABLY GUARDING ITS TERRITORY. ANY FOREIGN FINGERS IN OUR TAIWAN WILL BE SEVERED FROM THE PEOPLE WHO DARE TO PUT THEM THERE.

    Force is China's last choice. China has made it clear in its Anti-Secession Law.

    One interesting point: If China is truly "democratic", its voters will vote people into office who promise to unify Taiwan by force if its "president" continues to behave as he has been. The pro-I on Taiwan should thank un-democratic CPC for their corporal existence on the island.

    Thanks you for reading through my ramble and thank the blog owner for his or her inspiring post.

    My blog: http://surefire.cn/eblog
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